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+--- Thread: HD Nova (/showthread.php?tid=7175)
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HD Nova - CaptainHenreh - 04-07-2008
...an interesting side-note in the history of American motorcycle development:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.bikerenews.com/AntiqueBikes/CodeNameNova.htm">http://www.bikerenews.com/AntiqueBikes/CodeNameNova.htm</a><!-- m -->
Man, what could have been.
- Mike - 04-07-2008
v4tmfw
- BLINGMW - 04-07-2008
it all sounds well and good except for the liquid cooled part.
- PGK - 04-07-2008
BLINGMW Wrote:it all sounds well and good except for the liquid cooled part.and the "Harley Davidson" part
[hate]
Interesting to note that the primary opposition came from Willie G. Davidson, the bloke who brought us the commercial success story that was the XLCR. Could it have 'saved' HD? Maybe. Could it have turned them into a technology player? Certainly not. It's another example of HD being 10-20 years behind the curve in every aspect of technology.
In the article the Nova is presented as part of a ten-year plan for HD, which would have put the Nova 10-15 years behind the rising tide of high-tech Japanese machines that started with the CB750. By the late 1970's water cooling was nothing new to the Japanese. Fuel injection wasn't but a few years off. Not to mention, if the Nova had been produced, it most likely would have been much more expensive than a comparable Japanese bike--purchase price and service cost was a big reason that people bought UJM's over Harleys, irrespective of performance.
Even today, Harley has only recently made ABS an option on certain models (HD has equipped police bikes with ABS), more than 20 years after it first hit the motorcycle market. It's only been in the last 10 years, under tightening emissions standards, that HD has made fuel-injection available across its lineup. In fact, they were so steadfast in their use of carburetors that California models received such a drastically different state of tune that put them up to 20 horsepower down on 49 state models. The company is a technological joke, their engineers are accountants in lab coats with a copy of ms paint and a ruler, they only implement technology they can coat in chrome and sell as a Screamin' Eagle accessory item.
I think the simple truth is that HD never had a chance of introducing the Nova, the fact that it made it so far into prototyping and testing is a miracle. People who bought HD's, then as now, didn't want technology, they wanted chrome and they wanted to buy 'murican. And the people who bought UJM's, then as now, wanted reliability as much as they wanted to escape the stigma that came from owning an American motorcycle. They wanted/want something fast, high-tech and with a racing pedigree, not to mention something that was/is blindingly fast and agile. Which, to be fair, the Nova was not. It was a boulevard cruiser and a touring bike, with all of the chrome of the shovelheads and ironheads of its day, just with a more complicated motor. The modular motor idea was ahead of its time perhaps, but Triumph has shown that a multi-cylinder modular motor is a recipe for disaster, or at least lackluster performance.
At best, the Nova would have proven to be a disaster for HD, putting it way in the hole and not helping them gain any major market share, while at the same time alienating their customer base.
[/hate]
But they sure did make a shit ton of money in the last 30 years. Once they freed themselves from the shackles of AMF, they proceeded to cash in on their image, their history, and the very fact that they were 'murican and would chrome anything made of metal and even some things that weren't, and later on would put the HD logo and brand on anything that would sell, from cookie jars to ladies undergarments. The Nova was an interesting footnote, but really, who gives a shit about technology when you can spend the better part of 30 years selling the same garbage for more than MSRP (In most HD dealers, employee discount is MSRP, not dealer cost plus as would be expected). Not only that, but while you're at it, why not trot out some early 1920's technology in the form of the springer front end and sell it for more than the comparatively advanced crude telescopic forked models. Yes, HD has made a killing, so really, who cares about technology? They have shown that you really don't need it to make money.
- ScottyB - 04-08-2008
PGK Wrote:Yes, HD has made a killing, so really, who cares about technology? They have shown that you really don't need it to make money.
i would love to spend a day in HD marketing just to see how they work and what they do. I imagine they have a killer budget.
- CaptainHenreh - 04-08-2008
Phil, I pretty much agree with everything you said, but don't you think it's sad? I mean, don't you wish that we didn't have to be ashamed of our only large-scale motorcycle manufacturer?
I mean, it's not like they don't have the money, and it's not like they don't have the engineering talent (Just call Weissach and tell them what you're trying to do) and the 1125R has at least proven that they know *how* to do it. Maybe not well, but they *know*.
*sigh* Like I said, I wish I could be proud of an american-made bike. Maybe Victory will churn out something interesting?
- TheDudeAbides - 04-08-2008
PGK got it right. HD just lives off their marketing/image. when i lived in richmond i knew a bunch of diehard harly people. Alot of them rode hondas because they couldnt afford a harly, but they just wanted the look/sound/logo.
- CaptainHenreh - 04-28-2008
Just FYI, the HD dealership in Funchester was doing a set of testrides saturday and they had an 1125R there for people to ride. The bike looks *way* better in person than in pictures. Like, way better.
- .RJ - 05-01-2008
CaptainHenreh Wrote:I mean, don't you wish that we didn't have to be ashamed of our only large-scale motorcycle manufacturer?
I mean, it's not like they don't have the money, and it's not like they don't have the engineering talent
I have to disagree here... and not because I like Harleys. I think Harleys/Choppers are generally pretty lame, as are the people that ride them. That said... for many years now, Harley has been delivering what the customer wants and has the sales record to prove it. Sure, there was the AMF fiasco, but it seems they've moved past that now. They're selling chromed up, basic, reliable motorcycles, for huge profit. I say mad prawps for not shoving "new technology" at their customers, expecting them to buy it, such is the trend in the automotive world (and even the big 4 for bikes) to pack more 'stuff' in. Navigation... GPS... rain sensing windsheild washers.. slipper clutch... cramped up riding positions. Fuck that. Customer wants fat tires and chrome, give it to 'em.
- CaptainHenreh - 05-01-2008
.RJ Wrote:I have to disagree here... and not because I like Harleys. I think Harleys/Choppers are generally pretty lame, as are the people that ride them. That said... for many years now, Harley has been delivering what the customer wants and has the sales record to prove it.
I'm not disagreeing with you, not in the least. On the contrary: The very fact that they HAVE an amazing sales record is proof to me that they're just lazy and/or too conservative. They could build something cool, hell, they DO build something cool (XR1200) they just don't sell it here. Why not?
I think HD and Buell are on to something, but I'm not sure they know it. HD rarely talks horsepower, because they don't have anything on the rising sun bikes when it comes to that game. So all they talk about is torque. Torquetorquetorque. Well what the fuck does that mean? Harley's don't have much more maximum torque than the next guy (torque is a function of stroke, right?) but they've got it all down low, where the average joe uses it. This is good "engineering" but a godawful marketing plan...so HD doesn't use it. But I was reading a really interesting article in some british mag that basically said Motorcycles are about as "everyday fast" as they're going to get. Sure, they've got more ponies, but we don't use full throttle, except on a race track.
I had a point, but I lost it somewhere. Anyway, point is, HD could make a motorcycle that The Industry doesn't hate...they just don't wanna.
- .RJ - 05-01-2008
CaptainHenreh Wrote:I had a point, but I lost it somewhere. Anyway, point is, HD could make a motorcycle that The Industry doesn't hate...they just don't wanna.
But would their customers buy it?
Would it alienate existing customers, just by putting it in the showroom? (They are a fickle bunch...)
- Ginger - 05-01-2008
CaptainHenreh Wrote:Anyway, point is, HD could make a motorcycle that The Industry doesn't hate...they just don't wanna.
I think you're confusing 'The Industry' with 'you' and 'people that think like you.' If you only read magazines that pertain to your tastes, I think you're going to find people that agree with you. I do not think that Motorcycling hates Harley Davidson.
And for the record, the XR1200 isn't that cool. Or fast.
- Evan - 05-01-2008
what about the harley superbike team of a few years ago? what did they ride?
- .RJ - 05-01-2008
VR1000's.
They didnt get too far with the project, Duhamel got a few podium finishes once the reliability issues were sorted out - and that was probably more team issues than the bike.
![[Image: Harley-PicotteIMG_0523.jpg]](http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photos/Harley-PicotteIMG_0523.jpg)
- CaptainHenreh - 05-01-2008
asteele2 Wrote:And for the record, the XR1200 isn't that cool. Or fast.
You know what I mean.
And the XR1200 is cooler than, say, a fatboy.
- Ginger - 05-01-2008
I'd take a Fat Boy over Yurop's "XR" any day. And not just to argue with you. Their toy makes a mockery of what an XR should be; this shouldn't be a big surprise, though, as the XR1000 wasn't exactly a model worthy of it's name sake, either.
I still seriously don't get this "ZOMG-they don't care about performance!" attitude. A statement to which I'd reply
"So?"
Why does a company have to be a technological pioneer to get your respect? It's a little narrow minded to be so condescending based on the single mindedness of their product line because it's not performance oriented. It's kind of like closing your eyes and showing gay pron to a blind man.
Of this performance offtox, what of the *still in production* XR750 motor? What of their continued support, and I would like to point out that no other manufacturer can share this title, of American flat track? You know, the most grass roots form of motorcycle racing, and still producing incredible crossover riders, left in America?
Harley isn't going to put together a water cooled inline four. Get over it. The 1125R is barely a Harley in name, and I'd be surprised if it sold well, anyway. It is not what building a succesful sportsbike is about. If Harley did want to put together a succesful hyperbike they'd do well do launch a frontal assault on the AMA, as that's the only way they'll take over the Ricky Racer GixxAr Riders. Lets face it, we are not Harley's demographic, and they don't want us to be... and stop being mad about it!
- HAULN-SS - 05-02-2008
Does anyone know anything about HDs drag racing? I haven't kept up with it in a long time,b ut was the factory behind much of that? Last I knew anything about it they were making the HD teams run restrictor plates to keep from dominating it. I know you guys aren't into drags much anyway..but I always wondered how much the company was involved in that.
- PGK - 05-02-2008
.RJ Wrote:VR1000's.
They didnt get too far with the project, Duhamel got a few podium finishes once the reliability issues were sorted out - and that was probably more team issues than the bike.
It ended up being shelved because Harley wasn't interested in committing the kind of money it would have taken to make them competetive. Delays getting their bike ready meant it was 2 years behind the curve on it's first race. By the end they had shortened that to about 6 months behind, but the damage was done. They were kicking 130hp to the wheel when other teams were pushing past 150. Harley didn't see immediate good results, wouldn't commit, got scared and pulled the plug. Also, the only place you could buy a street version was in Poland.
- PGK - 05-09-2008
HAULN-SS Wrote:Does anyone know anything about HDs drag racing? I haven't kept up with it in a long time,b ut was the factory behind much of that? Last I knew anything about it they were making the HD teams run restrictor plates to keep from dominating it. I know you guys aren't into drags much anyway..but I always wondered how much the company was involved in that.
HD has been pretty involved in drag racing. They made a special version of the V-rod that was essentially race-ready, including slicks and wheelie bars.
- Ginger - 05-09-2008
The bike Phil was talking about:
[img]http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2006models/2006-Harley-Davidson-VRXSEScreamin'EagleV-RODDESTROYER.jpg[/img]
And it has a warranty.