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+--- Thread: Jumping red lights on a bicycle (/showthread.php?tid=8680)
Jumping red lights on a bicycle - JohnC - 01-15-2010
So, I'm a relatively new to bicycle commuting - have been doing it a couple of days a week since September. On the way in this morning, I did pretty much what I always do at the light nearest my house. Pulled up to the light, waited for traffic to thin out, proceeded across the red light (no pedestrians, no cross-traffic), and as I was headed down through, another bicyclist cut loose with a rant, telling me how I was "ruining it for everyone".
Now, for the most part I follow normal traffic rules, but on a bicycle it seems like there are some situations that warrant different behavior. The light in question is just before a narrow stretch of road with several cross-streets - I always jump that light if I can, because I want to get past those cross streets before someone has the opportunity to turn right across my path.
I am aware that I could be ticketed for jumping red lights, so let's assume that isn't a deterrent in the cases where I feel my safety is comprised by waiting for a green light.
What do you other MM bicyclists do? Vote in the poll, then explain yourself. According to Google, the bicycling "community" is very divided on this issue...
Re: Jumping red lights on a bicycle - D_Eclipse9916 - 01-15-2010
Im an asshole on a bicycle and ill admit it. I blow through lights, roll through intersections. I dont think its that big of a deal if you just pay attention to making sure you dont "hold up" anyone else, even if it is for half a second. Although pedestrians have right of way, a car hits me im dead. So I treat it like that, give cars a very wide berth, and expect the worst.
Re: Jumping red lights on a bicycle - Sijray21 - 01-15-2010
it really depends on the situation. a small intersection? no problem, i'll just look both ways before doing it. i almost always roll through stop signs unless i see a cop at one. at big intersections i typically wait for my light to turn green. there's a lot of risk running lights. if i get hit on the bicycle from a car while i'm running a light i could get pretty hurt or die and it would be my own fault - which would really suck. common sense. it's always the car you don't see that will create a big problem for you. like the one speeding out of a parking lot to make the light that you're about to cross illegally is the one i fear the most.
Re: Jumping red lights on a bicycle - WRXtranceformed - 01-15-2010
A bicyclist talked trash to you? Rofl.
Re: Jumping red lights on a bicycle - Mike - 01-15-2010
a bicycle is efficient only when you keep momentum. i sure as hell enjoy expending as little energy as possible on my commute. yes, i slow, but usually roll through all stop signs and red lights.
some "progressive" cities have actually made laws allowing cyclists to roll through... google "idaho stop."
Re: Jumping red lights on a bicycle - Mike - 01-15-2010
WRXtranceformed Wrote:A bicyclist talked trash to you? Rofl.
your typical bicyclist is a giant prick, which is why i don't really associate with any groups. i am a giant prick, but not as a bicyclist.
Re: Jumping red lights on a bicycle - JohnC - 01-15-2010
Mike Wrote:your typical bicyclist is a giant prick, which is why i don't really associate with any groups. i am a giant prick, but not as a bicyclist.
I've noticed this too. For some reason I assumed it would be more like the motorcycle community, with hand waving and nods. Instead, it seems like I'm just as likely to get a middle finger as a nod, or a rant instead of a hello.
Re: Jumping red lights on a bicycle - A350Zisa - 01-15-2010
I can't believe this.
Holy f word.
You're an Antichrist for this.
Do what you feel like doing, It sounds like you aren't going out of your way to be a jerk, you're just a guy running a red, meaning that you know the consequences and risks you're taking.
Seize the day. Run the red. Don't get hurt.
Re: Jumping red lights on a bicycle - ViPER1313 - 01-15-2010
In the words of my Uncle Mike, "No cop, no stop"
Re: Jumping red lights on a bicycle - CaptainHenreh - 01-15-2010
I'm going to play the devil's advocate a little here.
Something that's been repeated a couple of times, "I'm taking the risk, I know what I'm doing, it's nobody's responsibility but my own." That's all true, but what about the poor fucker that hits you, or worse yet, the poor fucker who tries to NOT hit you, and ends up hurting someone else? By this same logic, there's no harm in doing 120mph down an empty stretch of road, right? After all, I'm taking the risk, I know what I'm doing, it's nobody's responsibility but my own.
What you're really saying is that the rules don't apply to you because you're not driving a car (which is a typical bicyclists attitude, from my purely unscientific experience).
If you want laws changed there's a method for changing them. That method is not "ignoring the ones you don't like because they inconvenience you." I may not LIKE having to "convert to open carry" when I go into a restaurant that serves alcohol and I may think it's an idiotic rule but I follow it and work toward it being changed. Why should bicycling be any different?
Re: Jumping red lights on a bicycle - Sijray21 - 01-15-2010
JohnC Wrote:I've noticed this too. For some reason I assumed it would be more like the motorcycle community, with hand waving and nods. Instead, it seems like I'm just as likely to get a middle finger as a nod, or a rant instead of a hello.
i've noticed this as well and i also had the same assumption when jumping into the bicycling community from the motorcycling community.
Re: Jumping red lights on a bicycle - Ryan T - 01-15-2010
I'd roll through the sign/light for sure so long as it was safe. I'd also let loose on that other cyclist and tell him how I ride my bike is none of his business.
Re: Jumping red lights on a bicycle - .RJ - 01-15-2010
I do it all the time as long as its clear/safe. Just not a big deal and depending on the traffic situation it might be safer to do so.
If someone hits me because I didnt see them and was doing jackass things, then its my fault and I'm ok with this.
And yes, a large quotient of road cyclists are douchebags.
Re: Jumping red lights on a bicycle - Sijray21 - 01-15-2010
the 'ruining it for everyone' comment i actually kind of agree with, but i wouldn't put a lot of emphasis on it as a cyclist. there are more snobby people in this hobby then any other of my hobbies (and i ski and play golf!). i only tend to run lights with fewer people and at small intersections. i will not run them in large intersections or in heavy traffic situations (i try to be predictable).
i relate this situation back to the idiot sport bike riders that speed excessively, split lanes, and attract a LOT of attention from motorists and police. this negative attention portrays a negative stigma on the community of riders which i certainly do not appreciate. it causes me to defend myself more and it also attracts more attention from police (which i am fine with since i don't have any thing to fear from them), but at the same time opens up more reason to harrass (happened on my sport bike once). It also makes me obey the law even more for fear of getting 'caught' whenever i do break the law (and by this i mean speed just over the speed limit and parking in reasonable, yet illegal, places).
Re: Jumping red lights on a bicycle - .RJ - 01-15-2010
Sijray21 Wrote:the 'ruining it for everyone' comment i actually kind of agree with, but i wouldn't put a lot of emphasis on it as a cyclist
No, because most people already have their mind made up about it one way or the other and I dont care what they think so :finger: 'em
Re: Jumping red lights on a bicycle - Apoc - 01-15-2010
Its circular logic. People don't like cyclists because they act like they are outside the law, so cyclists feel justified in doing it. Its really no different than getting pissed at someone being stupid on a motorcycle because it gives us all a bad name.
I'm pretty sure you guys realize you reinforce negative attitudes towards cyclists. As long as you know that, I don't think you can complain about not being afforded a proper place to park your bike, etc.
I'm with Rex on this one.
Re: Jumping red lights on a bicycle - .RJ - 01-15-2010
Apoc Wrote:II'm pretty sure you guys realize you reinforce negative attitudes towards cyclists. As long as you know that, I don't think you can complain about not being afforded a proper place to park your bike, etc.
And if we were all perfect, stopped for all stop signs and lights, only rode on the bike lanes and bike paths, the same people would have the same poor opinion of people on bicycles. Sure it doesnt help, but It doesnt change anything on the other side of the coin either. Its not anything that the collective cycling community can win one way or the other individually, it really requires a bigger shift from a local gov't perspective.
Edit: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/01/news/a-reporters-notebook-sentencing-dr-thompson_102284">http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/01/news/a-reporters-notebook-sentencing-dr-thompson_102284</a><!-- m -->
There is much more on that story if you dig around velonews, but thats the extreme case of the asshat vs cyclist scenario.
Edit 2: Its hard to really explain this in really good way to someone who has not spent a lot of time riding on the roads. Log a few thousand miles outside and there's a much different perspective and most drivers are not cyclist hating asshats, and probably indifferent to our place on the road (for better or worse).
Re: Jumping red lights on a bicycle - Sijray21 - 01-15-2010
.RJ Wrote:Edit 2: Its hard to really explain this in really good way to someone who has not spent a lot of time riding on the roads. Log a few thousand miles outside and there's a much different perspective and most drivers are not cyclist hating asshats, and probably indifferent to our place on the road (for better or worse).
i agree with you. there are a certain, select few that cause issues on the road, but most drivers are not only 'ok' with bicyclists, they tend to offer you the right of way. this is kind of why i said to put less emphasis on this. where i do think it does create a stigma against cyclists, i don't think this has the same effect on a driver as say a speeding, lane-splitting motorcyclist. i'm saying the stigma isn't really worth much and doesn't carry a heavy affect on most drivers.
Re: Jumping red lights on a bicycle - Apoc - 01-15-2010
So lets see...
"My behavior isn't gonna change anything." Check.
"You really don't understand what it's like." Check.
Any other arguments we would get from a squid in the motorcycle forums? It just seems weird to me that you take two very difference stances when one has a motor, why is that? I haven't logged thousands of miles on my bicycle, but you're telling me that one day I'm going to change my opinion if I keep riding?
People don't hate on motor/cyclists because of the local government... they hate on us because of our behavior. It's a simple cause/effect.
Re: Jumping red lights on a bicycle - .RJ - 01-15-2010
Apoc Wrote:you're telling me that one day I'm going to change my opinion if I keep riding?
Yes, absolutely. Perspective and experience shapes opinion. You'll realize that the premise of someone saying running red lights on a bicycle being a big no-no and evidence of a jackass rider is a bit ridiculous to begin with, and they arent out there darting out into traffic causing accidents and other traffic pileups. And while I know what I do out on the road isnt going to change anyone's opinion on what they think about bicycles, its not free license to go ride like a jackass and get in the way - if you did that, your riding would probably end pretty quickly into the grill of a minivan.