software job advice

[HAULN-SS]

Well, I know some of you out there are developers in one form or the other, and I kind of in a bit of a transitional predicament. I worked my first job out of college, and kicked ass, been there 2 years, and I am ready to move on to a new project within the company. Two opportunities have presented themselves to me, and I am not sure which way to go. I am keeping these descriptions as vague as the job postings that I originally applied to, just so you get an idea.

My background: java app programming, scripting, build systems, and i was a math/comp sci major at JMU

job 1) Software development for super computers. This job would mean I would be programming in FORTRAN and C. From the gist of it I got, we'd write math libraries, and various other things that are platform specific to the SC it runs on. This job would be on a small team, and acts more as an R&D lab for my company, and gets "contracted out" to analyze and optimize code from other programs. They actually asked me about my calculus and algebra proficiency in this job interview, so no doubt it would be awesome to actually use my education for something.

Job 2) Typical enterprise web application developer. This would be doing backend programming for a web app, using all these newer frameworks and java shit I don't know much about. I have only ever done java app programming, nothing enterprise. This would be awesome to finally get on one of these for that experience, since everything these days is web based, albeit using whatever framework is the flavor of the week. This is totally in java, and everybody uses java, so it's probably really transferrable.


So, what would you do? Job 1 is probably less stable, but when else would I ever be able to work on a project like this? Isn't it more impressive to put on your resume that you built and optimized code to run on super computers? The downside is, theres not that many places to do this kind of job!. Job 2's obvious advantage is that every java shop i ever go to would be doing this, most likely. I am kind of leaning towards job 1, because I figure I am still young, and won't get pigeonholed, even if my java skills slip, because I figure if you can learn the job 1 type of development, you can learn anything, and hopefully the person interviewing you would realize that.

[.RJ]

You should quit and move to mexico.

[HAULN-SS]

and work as a drug mule wrangler?

[CaptainHenreh]

and work as a drug mule wrangler?

I hear they need hitmen down there. It's not too hard, I bet even a software guy could do it. I could write you a little flow diagram about how hits are supposed to go down.

[Maengelito]

I could write you a little flow diagram about how hits are supposed to go down.

Rex, we need to see this diagram

[WRXtranceformed]

Both of them sound super boring. I'm on the other side of the fence. I think you should quit and join the US Border Patrol. I've heard stories that it's a pretty awesome job, you get to beat the hell out of border jumpers and drug runners and generally just walk around with a big dick in your pants.

[HAULN-SS]

Both of them sound super boring. I'm on the other side of the fence. I think you should quit and join the US Border Patrol. I've heard stories that it's a pretty awesome job, you get to beat the hell out of border jumpers and drug runners and generally just walk around with a big dick in your pants.

I actually know and am friends with a director at CBP. If anyone wants a job doing that, I can get you in touch no problem. I could have done that job straight out of JMU, but the rookies start out doing shit like guarding a dumpster for 2 days before the president comes to town in some shithole midwest, USA.

pre-requisite: never been busted doing anything, and never actually done that thing, caught or not, within the last 7 years.

[Evan]

do #1. sounds like thats what you would enjoy the most.

there will be no shortage of java enterprise app developer jobs anytime in the future, and when/if you go back to doing that what experience you lose over the next couple years doing that will be made up for by the fact that your resume will stand out from the bazillion (well, probably more like 13) other devs with nothing but enterprise app dev experience.

and of course, no dev with a clearance will ever be in need of work

[CaptainHenreh]

I could write you a little flow diagram about how hits are supposed to go down.

Rex, we need to see this diagram

*Goes to fire up Visio*

do #1. sounds like thats what you would enjoy the most.

there will be no shortage of java enterprise app developer jobs anytime in the future, and when/if you go back to doing that what experience you lose over the next couple years doing that will be made up for by the fact that your resume will stand out from the bazillion (well, probably more like 13) other devs with nothing but enterprise app dev experience.

and of course, no dev with a clearance will ever be in need of work

If you're not going to do the Mexican hitman thing, I'm with stupid here.

[Sijray21]

I actually know and am friends with a director at CBP.

just curious, what branch and area? CBP is my client and i'm in an SAP workshop for a branch in OIT

seems like #1 would be interesting, i'd lean toward that route as well. it really depends on who you'll be working with too. a good team and nice people go a long way, even if you're working by yourself for the most part. #2 would be nice for the long-term, but you can always learn the new stuff and get back into the swing of things with your background if you decide to switch back.

[HAULN-SS]

I guess I don't know what branch, but he splits his time between springfield (or woodbridge?) and Herndon.

As for the Job advice.. I think that maybe I am going to lean towards the supercompy development. I don't know where I'd ever get that chance again, and it's a small team. I feel like standing out on a small team will be easier than a whole slew of developers. All of the Java frameworks and stuff change so often that the new hot-shit will probably be different 5 years from now than what is currently out there, so I'd have to learn all that stuff anyway. Albeit, from scratch, but again, I feel like most of that stuff isn't hard once you get into it...just a matter of actually doing it.

[stevegula]

Looking at it from my BBA/MBA point of view, and subbing in business math / decision making instead of calculus for #1

I'd go with #1.

Assuming you studied Math because you like it, why not? Plus, optimizing other people's code? That's like constantly shitting on other people with your superiorness. Who doesn't want to do that?!!? haha.

#2 is just an incessant pain in the ass (it's what I'm trying to do more of). Every week there's some new framework or 'technology' [1] that's you're expected to know or forced to use because someone thinks it's hot shit even when it isn't.


[1] talking with Kohana PHP framework guys the other day, someone was all excited that it's going to be HMVC (Hierarchical Model-View-Controller) in the next version. Which involved someone going, "that's great, it got introduced to JAVA 8 years ago." And someone else going "Whoopty do, they just rebranded 15 year old PAC and called it their own." Not to mention the incessant JQuery vs Prototype / JQuery UI vs Scriptaculous debates. Fuck I hate my job.

[HAULN-SS]

Looking at it from my BBA/MBA point of view, and subbing in business math / decision making instead of calculus for #1

I'd go with #1.

Assuming you studied Math because you like it, why not? Plus, optimizing other people's code? That's like constantly shitting on other people with your superiorness. Who doesn't want to do that?!!? haha.

Haha..I never thought of it like that. I did actually study math because I liked it...started out as an afterthought but ended up being what I liked the most.

What you mentioned about the frameworks is what a buddy of mine said too..not to worry about not knowing shit about those frameworks and shit, because they change so often i'd just have to re-learn something new all the time anyway. I will know something within about a week or two...I've interviewed a bunch lately, so waiting on all those results to get back to me to make some decisions

[HAULN-SS]

Just a quick update: I had my choice of two web-dev jobs, one backened, one UI, and the Supercomputer development job. I have accepted that super computing job, and will be starting sometime in the relatively near future. I am pretty excited to be working on this, so I think I made the right choice. I have been cramming like mad lately to learn anything about supercomputers, since my knowledge was basically nil up to this point

[HAULN-SS]

Yesterday I had a book laid on my desk entitled "Plasma Physics"

fml.

[stevegula]

taking advice from me is the last thing anyone should ever do. I should come with my own warning label.

[HAULN-SS]

Heh, now you tell me!

It's actually not that bad. I almost feel like I am being paid to be in school? A lot of the code I work on is coming from straight up nerd engineers, and CS grad students. It actually is kind of fun to tell them how terrible it is. Sometimes it's even in a consulting role..they just want to know how to fix it...so i don't even have to do the work!

The only downside is the fact that a lot of the code is written in FORTRAN and C/C++. This is not necessarily going to help me get my next job, but at the same time..i feel like if I was interviewing a guy who knew the ins and outs of memory allocation and pointers AND had an idea of how OO code is to be written, I'd hire him anyway.

Also, this job is going to be relocating to New Mexico to Los Alamos National Labs. I might go with it, because I feel like that will also be a resume differentiator later on in life, saying that you worked at the most awesome national labs.

[HAULN-SS]

So, another quick update and/or vent. I actually love the type of work I am doing now. Code Optimization is fun. Working in an R&D environment is fun. I basically get to read and/or shit on thesis papers and stuff all the time. A lot of the code we work on started out as a research topic in university at one point recently, so it's kinda nice to be working on cutting edge algorithms and such. I also have completely refreshed on my math skills that at one point were starting to slip. This job has completely re-upped me in the areas of vector calculus and other topics I wont bore you with.

On the downside, I guess the downsizing of aerospace projects due to the economy is starting to trickle down. I did get a raise to take this job, but there has been a trend (openly discussed among management) to give people lesser performance reviews, and the raises in general are smaller this year than in years past. This kind of pisses me off (moreso about them actually saying they are going to give people lower reviews than the raise part).

So, I think I am going to look around about finding a new job once I finish with my masters this year. I am in the 3rd to last class right now. The bad news is, since I do kind of like this work, my options for next job are going to be more limited to government agencies and other companies trying to solve large problems as fast as possible. Probably in a lab closer to this area than New Mexico too..I kind of decided even though I like BFE, that is just a little too far out.

And just as a general PSA to up and coming, or existing software people...I think if you are looking for something different to do other than enterprise application programming in .net or java or whatever..looking for a job in code optimization isn't a bad way to go, especially if you have a math background. Most of my job involves first trying to figure out what partial differential equation some code is trying to solve, and see if they are even using the best numerical method possible. This work comes before even writing the first line of code. We also pretty much work in quick spiral development cycles too, which I like.

[Mike]

news spam is back!

if i were you, i would not leave a job because your raise isn't what it has been in the past. especially if i enjoyed the work...

[Mike]

let's try this for news on your face.

[test]