Dad's Car Broke Down, Dealership being Shady

[G.Irish]

So my Dad's 03 Civic (95000 miles) stopped last Saturday on way back from airport. He says the engine just cut out and when he pulled over it wouldn't restart (it did turnover though). No smoke, no steam, no bang or other bad noises. He says the car was running fine up to that point (no stuttering or anything).

Car towed to dealership. Service writer says that there was no coolant in the car and that ruined the engine. Engine will need replacing. My dad just took the car in for timing belt/water pump and some other maintenance back in February, has only driven maybe 2000 miles since then.

So I called the dealership up because things sound fishy. Service writer said engine got so hot it melted the radiator cap and timing belt cover. She said engine needed to be replaced because one of the engine codes said the car overheated and was run in extreme conditions. She said they did not do a compression test nor leakdown.

My thoughts are:

*If there was a coolant leak in the system somewhere, there would've been steam
*Maybe they didn't put coolant back in the car after they changed timing belt/water pump. However, if there was no coolant in the car for several months I think my dad would've encountered an issue before then.
*The ECU might've shut off the car as a failsafe. Engine may not be significantly damaged and the dealership is just angling for $1500 in labor to replace the engine.

Any additional thoughts. I'm gonna head down to the dealership myself to check things out.

[ViPER1313]

Most cars will throw a coolant light if low on coolant, as well as a CEL / temperature warning light when a car is overheating, I think your dad might have noticed them. I have also never heard of a car melting engine parts because it overheated. Lastly, if it overheated that badly, it would not have turned over on the side of the road.

I would go down there ASAP, inspect for yourself, and if it's BS immediately call a state trooper. Make them do a compression test to prove the engine is toast.

EDIT: My brothers Taurus recently overheated severely due to a tensioner pulley seizing and throwing the belt off the motor. He drove it 10 minutes with no waterpump, when it came to a stop it puked a gallon of coolant from the overflow. Temperature gauge was pegged. It was very obvious the car was overheating - he was a complete moron about the situation but he still knew that the car was running hot. All this and the engine is still 100% fine :thumbup: I doubt your dad could have overheated a Honda enough to blow the motor (remember the Youtube videos of people trying to blow a D-series....) without knowing it was going on, and having 0 symptoms of it on the side of the road.

[ScottyB]

i'll second Adam's observation that an engine seized from heat won't turn over. it will also smell like it's melting down if it gets so hot that it melts the timing cover to the engine. there are lots of indicators in a modern engine that will go nuts if there is no coolant present (dummy lights, temp gauge obviously, CEL, etc)

if it's an interference engine and popped the timing belt from a bad installation i could see it just dying but still turning over.

go to the dealer and look at that timing cover. if it isn't melted down like chernobyl i'd give 'em hell. demand a compression test. the entire situation sounds like they're trying to take your dad for a ride.

[NTIman]

I don't know, not all cars have a light for low coolant. Toyotas definitely don't, and we've seen engines fried from being driven without coolant. Usually its because of a bad water pump. If there is not coolant the gauge may not register, so theres a possibility that he didn't see a light of the gauge going high.

I'd certainly ask to see the engine. If the timing cover is melted, which an overheating engine can do, I'd say it definitely needs and engine.

If it overheated, it probably warped the head and blew the head gasket, and you may as well replace the engine instead of going to the work to tear it down, replace the head, and make sure the block is also ok.

I've never seen a code on a car for overheating, and like i said, if the car was out of coolant, the gauge may not register, so the computer wouldn't even know to set a code or go into a fail safe mode.

I'd definitely check to see if there are any signs of poor work done by them before....2000 miles isn't very far before a catastrphic failure.

[NTIman]

Does kind of sound like a broken timing belt though. Only you really should know if its a broken timing belt because it will turnover a hell of a lot faster than normal.

[G.Irish]

So I went down and took a look at the car myself. Looked like there was no coolant in the car, but I couldn't see anywhere where it might be leaking. There was a bit of oil seeping out of the left side of the engine but that might have just been the valve cover gasket or something. I checked the oil and it did look like the dipstick was a bit scorched. Car was probably running pretty hot.

I got a hold of the service writer and the engine codes she had given me over the phone were wrong. The two codes the car threw were for the crank position sensor and the engine coolant temperature sensor. The ECT sensor being broken would explain why my dad never saw the temp needle pegged. But of course neither engine code means 'you need to replace the engine'.

So I tried to start the car, and sure enough it started right up. Engine didn't sound weird or anything. I'm guessing that the dealership didn't put coolant back in the car when they changed the water pump. The reason my dad didn't notice anything wrong is because A. the ECT sensor wasn't working; and B. he was only doing short 10-15 minute trips for the last few months.

I'm gonna go with him and put some water in the car and take it to an independent shop. From there we'll see what happens.

[Ole]

Name of the dealer?

[G.Irish]

Sheehy Honda. I don't know if they're purposely being dishonest, it could just be laziness or whatever that they're saying 'just replace the engine'. But two other things that were weird are:

*When my dad was by there today looking at a new Civic he asked for the key to get some stuff out of the car. They said the tech who worked on it locked the keys in his toolbox and that he wasn't in today. I don't know service department policy but I don't think it's standard to have techs lock customer keys in their toolboxes. I don't even know why you would dare put someone's key in your toolbox, especially if you weren't gonna be at work the next day. Either they were lying, they have a very stupid key policy, or their tech made a large boo boo.

*WIth the new car they offered him $1000 trade-in for the old car. They told him they'd probably junk the car but that is clearly bullshit because they wouldn't give someone $1000 for a car they were gonna send to a junkyard.

[ViPER1313]

Wrote stuff

Call the police. Now.

[Ole]

Your pops is getting hosed. $1k for 2003 that runs? I sold my wife's 97 Maxima w/190k miles for $1500.......

I would talk to the service manager (be polite but firm), get the car out of there and if you can't, then threaten legal action.

[Dave]

Shaaaaadyyyy
GTFO

[NTIman]

bring it to winchester and ill look at it for you if you need someone to