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+--- Thread: Last pics before FMIC (/showthread.php?tid=4192)
- WRXtranceformed - 06-01-2006
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:All I'm saying is that my transmission is known for being strong as hell and I'm already anticipating it grenading with the new setup. I'll be putting aside some money in case it does to eventually upgrade to a 6 speed custom dogbox tranny. That or new axles, whichever break first =pwhite97dsm Wrote:didnt mean that the trannies are weak, i know they are pretty hefty and like most cars the clutch will always be the weak point. But......i wanna ride when you decide to get a Shep or TRE trannyHell i wanna ride without one. Just curious, u gonna go with some R comps, for next year?
r comps maybe even this summer :twisted:
40-45 hours at 10.50 an hour a week, plus my painting job 1-2 days a week means 400-600 bucks a week. Gotta take care of insurance, registration, my cell phone bill (144 freaking dollars), movies, food, and then 2 grand for spending money during the year. So ill have probably like 2-3 grand to spend on my car, that 2000 dollars is also (just in case) money because I am hoping to work 10-15 hours a week or maybe even 20 during school.
Oh and I didnt mean to sound like arrogant or anything about it, but I have learned to stop giving a shit what anyone says or rumors about weaknesses. I have seen what works on my friend's cars and from real people and the way I baby my car (pre-loading the drivetrain, not speeding on regular roads, doing burnouts and all that bullshit), hopefully the tranny will last a lot longer. Plus I only have 70k miles ont he tranny, most dsm trannies have 120k plus and thats almost on the low side.
- ScottyB - 06-01-2006
.RJ Wrote:What is preloading the drivetrain?
i'm curious too. is it like barely engaging the clutch before dumping it as opposed to just dropping the clutch the whole way from the firewall?
- WRXtranceformed - 06-01-2006
Sounds like a fast clutch slip or something? I've never heard of it either.
- bassmangrammy - 06-02-2006
preloading is an automatic trick...basically power braking.
- D_Eclipse9916 - 06-02-2006
ScottyB Wrote:Ding ding ding!!! barely engaging the clutch and getting the whole drivetrain engaged therefore the stress is considerably less..RJ Wrote:What is preloading the drivetrain?
i'm curious too. is it like barely engaging the clutch before dumping it as opposed to just dropping the clutch the whole way from the firewall?
Imagine therefore someone hitting you with a punch, his fist travels through the air and hits you in the face, hurts pretty bad right? Now have him put the fist on your skin, and then use the same force, its absorbed much better due to less initial shock. Thats why clutches and transmissions fail a lot with AWD. What happens is we get so much traction that instead of having the extra stress spun off in the wheels that energy is absorbed into the drivetrain causing extra stress.
LARGE reason why evos, wrxs, and dsm have this whole "trannies are weak" reputation. Only because they are beat the shit outta. Now take a honda with slicks and launch it almost at redline (turbo civic of course to make it on par with power on a wrx, evo, or dsm) and do that a bunch of times, like you see at the drag track, broken axles, destroyed transmissions and shit like that.
- .RJ - 06-02-2006
Sounds like a load of chit..... at least, has nothing to do with preloading any drivetrain component, since you're not putting any load on it initially.
The only thing you're doing is not putting a shock load onto the drivetrain, which will be several orders greater than the 'normal' load you'd put on it, even in track/autox conditions.
- Maengelito - 06-02-2006
.RJ Wrote:Sounds like a load of chit..... at least, has nothing to do with preloading any drivetrain component, since you're not putting any load on it initially.
The only thing you're doing is not putting a shock load onto the drivetrain, which will be several orders greater than the 'normal' load you'd put on it, even in track/autox conditions.
i think he is referring to shock load. the load on the drivetrain will be the same wether you dump the clutch at 7k or slip the clutch, but the initial shock load will be greatly reduced if you slip it.
- JustinG - 06-02-2006
^^^^^exactly, you just ride the clutch a lil to get going then dump it the rest of the way, the car is rolling gradually, instead of the shock of all four wheels instantaneously. kind of the same thing you do for FWD to keep from spinning, the same load is there but not all at once. Granted riding the clutch shortens its life, but much better than rebuilding a tranny or center diff, blah blah blah....
- JustinG - 06-02-2006
DJ, look what i found.....
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://forums.dcevoclub.com/showthread.php?t=4553">http://forums.dcevoclub.com/showthread.php?t=4553</a><!-- m -->
- D_Eclipse9916 - 06-02-2006
.RJ Wrote:Sounds like a load of chit..... at least, has nothing to do with preloading any drivetrain component, since you're not putting any load on it initially.
The only thing you're doing is not putting a shock load onto the drivetrain, which will be several orders greater than the 'normal' load you'd put on it, even in track/autox conditions.
Maybe you should actually read into my post instead of automatically telling me my shit is a load of shit, itll save you a few embarassing moments. Read into my post, I SAID EXACTLY ABOUT THE INITIAL SHOCK. Its about two sentences into the second paragraph. Goddamn RJ, im tired of you trying to call me out with "sounds like a load of chit" when I said initial shock in my own post.
*rant over*
I really got to stop letting your posts get to my nerves.
Justin, I really wish I could afford 1200 right now, but I only got around 500 dollars spending money, im not dipping into reserves for just seats. Those are hot as shit tho. Hey, you find any brembo brakes from evos let me know tho!
- Maengelito - 06-02-2006
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Oh and I didnt mean to sound like arrogant or anything about it, but I have learned to stop giving a shit what anyone says or rumors about weaknesses.
hey man, you said it
- .RJ - 06-02-2006
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Maybe you should actually read into my post instead of automatically telling me my shit is a load of shit, itll save you a few embarassing moments. Read into my post, I SAID EXACTLY ABOUT THE INITIAL SHOCK.
I wont disagree with you that reducing the shock load on the drivetrain due to dumping the clutch at 7,000 rpm will extend the life of the components - because that part is largely true.
I did read the post several times, and I'm still trying to figure out what you're talking about. Keep the "embarrassing moments" for yourself.
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Its about two sentences into the second paragraph. Goddamn RJ, im tired of you trying to call me out with "sounds like a load of chit" when I said initial shock in my own post.
What I am disagreeing with is the terminoligy you've created here and how you're applying this, because it doesnt work. "Preload" means to apply an initial load or torque, either to a fastener, a spring, etc...
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Ding ding ding!!! barely engaging the clutch and getting the whole drivetrain engaged therefore the stress is considerably less.
This part, just isnt true. If you're applying a torque to the drivetrain, then that is what the drivetrain sees. It doesnt matter where it comes from, or how smoothly its applied - the only way to reduce it is to make less power or use less throttle.
The drivetrain is always "engaged". The gearsets are always meshed together, so is the diff, the ring & pinion gears, the driveshafts, the axles, etc.... the only difference is whether the clutch has engaged the drivetrain to the engine or not. If you are slipping the clutch excessively then that will just wear out faster.
- Goodspeed - 06-02-2006
DJ put some pics up, I want to see this FMIC!
- ScottyB - 06-02-2006
.RJ Wrote:What I am disagreeing with is the terminoligy you've created .
i don't know about the terminology either, but the technique is understandable. if you don't fully engage a clutch, then you aren't applying the full torque available, right? so in that respect you can ramp up the application of it instead of slamming the gears with a full amount over the course of a millisecond. maybe im slow but that's how i see it.
- .RJ - 06-02-2006
ScottyB Wrote:if you don't fully engage a clutch, then you aren't applying the full torque available, right? so in that respect you can ramp up the application of it instead of slamming the gears with a full amount over the course of a millisecond
You're still going to accelerate and apply the full torque of the engine to the drivetrain, thats unavoidable. Riding the clutch while taking off doesnt reduce any of the torque through the drivetrain. Not dumping the clutch at 7,000 rpm is a good thing.... since shock loads (drag launches) are whats going to destroy your drivetrain.
- JustinG - 06-02-2006
you ask and you shall recieve....go to <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dcevoclub.com">www.dcevoclub.com</a><!-- w --> and look in their classifieds, a guy was selling his stock evo 8 brembos, <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://forums.dcevoclub.com/showthread.php?t=4545">http://forums.dcevoclub.com/showthread.php?t=4545</a><!-- m -->
- D_Eclipse9916 - 06-05-2006
.RJ Wrote:D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Maybe you should actually read into my post instead of automatically telling me my shit is a load of shit, itll save you a few embarassing moments. Read into my post, I SAID EXACTLY ABOUT THE INITIAL SHOCK.
I wont disagree with you that reducing the shock load on the drivetrain due to dumping the clutch at 7,000 rpm will extend the life of the components - because that part is largely true.
I did read the post several times, and I'm still trying to figure out what you're talking about. Keep the "embarrassing moments" for yourself.
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Its about two sentences into the second paragraph. Goddamn RJ, im tired of you trying to call me out with "sounds like a load of chit" when I said initial shock in my own post.
What I am disagreeing with is the terminoligy you've created here and how you're applying this, because it doesnt work. "Preload" means to apply an initial load or torque, either to a fastener, a spring, etc...
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Ding ding ding!!! barely engaging the clutch and getting the whole drivetrain engaged therefore the stress is considerably less.
This part, just isnt true. If you're applying a torque to the drivetrain, then that is what the drivetrain sees. It doesnt matter where it comes from, or how smoothly its applied - the only way to reduce it is to make less power or use less throttle.
The drivetrain is always "engaged". The gearsets are always meshed together, so is the diff, the ring & pinion gears, the driveshafts, the axles, etc.... the only difference is whether the clutch has engaged the drivetrain to the engine or not. If you are slipping the clutch excessively then that will just wear out faster.
I have not had time to respond to this yet and here it goes. Obviously you have not figured into the equation the inevitable "slack" in a drivetrain. By "pre-loading" the drivetrain, giving just a little throttle to engage all the components to mesh together it will reduce the shock load on the drivetrain. The drivetrain is not engaged because of that slack.
So my terminology was correct, my point of shock was said way before you started restating my post in other words, and then were just wrong in having the drivetrain always engaged unless you would like to argue that drivetrains have no slack, I would love to see you blueprint my drivetrain and say it has no slack.
- Dave - 06-06-2006
aside from the tranny rant, I'd also recommend you start saving for a TRE or Shep tranny. Not because yours will break, although someday it will, but b/c it is better to have the $$ sitting there to go ahead and get it when it goes, since this car is your DD. My Talon had a TRE tranny and I loved it. It was notchy and irritable (b/c of the light flywheel and strong clutch) at first, but once I had adjusted to it, it was pretty fun, and I never had to worry at all about hurting it, which gave for some great peace of mind. Keep us updated on the work being done, glad you're enjoying the new goodies.
- Mike - 06-06-2006
where the hell are the pictures? JHIGHKFGDHGK
- .RJ - 06-06-2006
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Obviously you have not figured into the equation the inevitable "slack" in a drivetrain
There's nothing to "obviously" figure out. There is no slack to take up anywhere, and if there is excessive clearance then you have bigger issues.
Everything's engaged. All the time. Gears are constantly meshed, in the trans, in the center diff, in the rear diff, etc.
![[Image: tranny2.jpg]](http://www.sandmracing.com/images/s/ats/tranny2.jpg)